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Doktor*
unregistered user
06-Nov-02, 10:17 PM (PST)
 
"Grow Young with HGH"
 
   There is another interesting book for inquiring minds: GROW YOUNG WITH HGH by R Klatz and C Kahn. This book basically discusses proven health methods and supplements to improve physical appearance. It discusses the non-drug methods, diet, excerise, weight training, and, of course, HGH.

I am not a fan of lipo and plastic surgery. Hgh is a workable alternative. However, you must be know how to cycle the dose and not carry any medical risks. The internet has brought the price down to where the average person can afford a trial or personal use.

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FreeWillyDave
Charter Member
3436 posts
07-Nov-02, 08:55 AM (PST)
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1. "dude, when you mess with hormones like this..."
In response to message #0
 
   ... you won't grow young, but you will grow a jawbone so thick and large that Samson will wished he had used it to kill 1,000 men.

If you are under the age of, say, 50, you are A FOOL to use this or DHEA instead of doing things the old fashioned way: watch your diet and get some exercise. The endorphins that your body will naturally produce are far more healthy than this quick-fix drugstore crap.

If you think you can substitute good old sweat and working out with a pill, you are wrong. Why mess with your body this way?

>There is another interesting book for inquiring minds: GROW
>YOUNG WITH HGH by R Klatz and C Kahn. This book basically
>discusses proven health methods and supplements to improve
>physical appearance. It discusses the non-drug methods,
>diet, excerise, weight training, and, of course, HGH.
>
>I am not a fan of lipo and plastic surgery. Hgh is a
>workable alternative. However, you must be know how to
>cycle the dose and not carry any medical risks. The
>internet has brought the price down to where the average
>person can afford a trial or personal use.

e h c * -- *sigh*

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BoneDonor
Charter Member
1902 posts
14-Nov-02, 12:15 PM (PST)
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12. "RE: dude, when you mess with hormones like this..."
In response to message #1
 
>... you won't grow young, but you will grow a jawbone so
>thick and large that Samson will wished he had used it to
>kill 1,000 men.
>
>If you are under the age of, say, 50, you are A FOOL to use
>this or DHEA instead of doing things the old fashioned way:
>watch your diet and get some exercise. The endorphins that
>your body will naturally produce are far more healthy than
>this quick-fix drugstore crap.
>
>If you think you can substitute good old sweat and working
>out with a pill, you are wrong. Why mess with your body
>this way?

Geez, I actually agree with FWD on something. I have been exercising regularly (3x/week) and burning ~1400-1600 Kcal during my 1.5-2 hour workout. Combined with watching what I eat (cutting out 90% of the sugared drinks and 50% of the carbs during meals), I have lost about 25 lbs in the last 11 months. My at-rest pulse rate is about 58-60, I have lost 3-4" off my waist, and I feel about 10 years younger.

Stick to exercise, a decent diet, and moderate use of vitamins. You will be a lot better off...

BoneDonor

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nottheone
Charter Member
1493 posts
08-Nov-02, 12:14 PM (PST)
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2. "HGH = Cancer?"
In response to message #0
 
And besides I thought the effects were only temporary. You lose it all if you go off the HGH. Is that right? I just read about this stuff in magazines so don't consider me a credible source on the topic . . .

NTO

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Southernman_ken
Charter Member
1786 posts
11-Nov-02, 01:23 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: Grow Young with HGH"
In response to message #0
 
  
For the 17th time.

The original study was done in older men (over 65 if I remember right). The duration of therapy was for 6 months. The men increased lean body mass and decreased fat.

Long term effects of GH in this population are unclear. Acromegaly is probably not a concern and can be monitored.

It is unclear what GH will do to those younger, who have normal levels of GH. GH and strenuous exercise can increase muscle mass, that is why it is abused by athletes. But the data on what GH alone will do for a health 40-something is scant. If anything the data argues for minimal benefit. However combined with exercise, you may get a useful response.

If you feel you want to give it a shot, I would not go more than 6 months. Remember it is a daily injection, usually in the belly fat. Cost is an issue at $400 to $500 a month for therapeutic doses.

Finally, homeopathic doses of GH do absolutely NOTHING (except make the sellers wealthy). Since all OTC formulations are homeopathic, all of them are useless.

There are other natural ways to increase lean body mass, and slow muscle loss.

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FreeWillyDave
Charter Member
3436 posts
11-Nov-02, 01:34 PM (PST)
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4. "yes..."
In response to message #3
 
   >
>There are other natural ways to increase lean body mass, and
>slow muscle loss.

...yes, it's called EXERCISE!

e h c * -- *sigh*

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MD*
unregistered user
11-Nov-02, 02:20 PM (PST)
 
5. "HGH?"
In response to message #4
 
   I suppose prostate cancer doesn't scare you.

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BoneDonor
Charter Member
1902 posts
14-Nov-02, 12:18 PM (PST)
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13. "RE: HGH?"
In response to message #5
 
>I suppose prostate cancer doesn't scare you.

Why do you suggest that exercise would increase the chances of prostate cancer? Or are you referring to HGH? Please clarify.

BoneDonor

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Doktor*
unregistered user
11-Nov-02, 07:19 PM (PST)
 
6. "RE: Grow Young with HGH"
In response to message #0
 
   Seems like this board does not keep up with the studies. Let us be clear, the book suggest trying all the nondrug stuff first. It suggests all the regular stuff and newer supplements to stimulate natural HgH release first. Special amino acid supplements like Arginine and Glutamine are discussed. This should be of interest to RB'ers because these supplements are also touted as natural supplements for erectile dysfunction. Secondly, the AMA has approved HgH for antiaging treatments in America because there are no current side effect profiles for the dosages and regimens proposed and the consenses opinion is there is probably not going to be any problems--your scare tactics are from doses of weight lifters and idiots who consistently use supraphysiologic doses and regimens to produce acromegaly. Finally, there are no conclusive studies showing an increased cancer risk with the use of Hgh--it is a theoretical risk. Finally, if you follow the hormone profiles of males/females all show a decline in the 30's-40's associated with the life changes in body shape.

DHEA use has been discredited. If you study the steriod pathway, DHEA is a precursor used in all gluco, mineral and steriod synthesis. Thus, supplementation has doubtful clinical benefit.

Prostate problems affect 80% of males over the age of 60. We will all get it because we fall into a high risk sub group--sexually active males. You multiple poppers are at a higher risk. If you do not wish TURP, rotor rooter your urethra, or radiosugery, you should consider supplementation now to minimize the risk. Proscar and saw palmetto are standard supplements.

Read up on physiology either on the net or at your local health provider's site. I just provide a warning and POSSIBLE interventions. You must decide on you own if it is worth the risk.

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FreeWillyDave
Charter Member
3436 posts
11-Nov-02, 11:14 PM (PST)
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7. "this is a load of shit, AND..."
In response to message #6
 
   if you are coming up with all of these 'answers' now, why in the hell did you ask the question in the first place??

Fact of the matter is, I reinforced the 'fitness' issue, because obviously most of you don't seem to know what that really means. Like it was a presupposed condition. Well, it's not. If you don't exercise **regularly** and have a decent level of cardiovascular fitness as well as muscle mass, this discussion is pointless and stupid. And it's proven that even you old codgers in your 60's can benefit from regular exercise and the abovementioned benefits of increased cardio fitness and muscle mass.

Period.

Talk pills after you come back to us looking like Jack LaLanne.

>Seems like this board does not keep up with the studies.
>Let us be clear, the book suggest trying all the nondrug
>stuff first. It suggests all the regular stuff and newer
>supplements to stimulate natural HgH release first. Special
>amino acid supplements like Arginine and Glutamine are
>discussed. This should be of interest to RB'ers because
>these supplements are also touted as natural supplements for
>erectile dysfunction. Secondly, the AMA has approved HgH
>for antiaging treatments in America because there are no
>current side effect profiles for the dosages and regimens
>proposed and the consenses opinion is there is probably not
>going to be any problems--your scare tactics are from doses
>of weight lifters and idiots who consistently use
>supraphysiologic doses and regimens to produce acromegaly.
>Finally, there are no conclusive studies showing an
>increased cancer risk with the use of Hgh--it is a
>theoretical risk. Finally, if you follow the hormone
>profiles of males/females all show a decline in the
>30's-40's associated with the life changes in body shape.
>
>DHEA use has been discredited. If you study the steriod
>pathway, DHEA is a precursor used in all gluco, mineral and
>steriod synthesis. Thus, supplementation has doubtful
>clinical benefit.
>
>Prostate problems affect 80% of males over the age of 60.
>We will all get it because we fall into a high risk sub
>group--sexually active males. You multiple poppers are at a
>higher risk. If you do not wish TURP, rotor rooter your
>urethra, or radiosugery, you should consider supplementation
>now to minimize the risk. Proscar and saw palmetto are
>standard supplements.
>
>Read up on physiology either on the net or at your local
>health provider's site. I just provide a warning and
>POSSIBLE interventions. You must decide on you own if it is
>worth the risk.

e h c * -- *sigh*

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FreeWillyDave
Charter Member
3436 posts
11-Nov-02, 11:21 PM (PST)
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8. "Oh, and by the way.."
In response to message #6
 
   before you go and try to sell that B.S. here, do a search on the topic first. You'll find it's been discussed-- as well as the various aminos like L-arginine-- on this board before:

http://forum.myredbook.com/cgi-bin/dcforum2/dcboard.pl?az=show_thread&om=25406&forum=general

The research has been done, and the point has already been made.

e h c * -- *sigh*

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MD*
unregistered user
12-Nov-02, 09:05 PM (PST)
 
9. "RE: Oh, and by the way.."
In response to message #8
 
   FWD is right. Take that garbage at your own risk.

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FreeWillyDave
Charter Member
3436 posts
13-Nov-02, 02:13 PM (PST)
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11. "grow young?? well..."
In response to message #6
 
   ... if your girlfriend takes it for long enough, she just might grow a nice, thick, long shlong that will put yours to shame. Now how humiliating would that be?

Love ya, doktor* ! You must be selling HgH for a living or something.

e h c * -- *sigh*

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MagnificentBastard
Charter Member
970 posts
13-Nov-02, 09:08 AM (PST)
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10. "grow young and deformed"
In response to message #0
 
   You didn't mention the tendency for hgh to deform your facial structure to make you look like jaws from the bond movie. You can always tell bodybuilders that use hgh because of the lantern jaw and overall neanderthal-like facial structure inherent with prolonged use of that drug

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Doktor*
unregistered user
14-Nov-02, 07:46 PM (PST)
 
14. "Once Again"
In response to message #10
 
   I am not selling anything but information. If you are so closed minded perhaps you may want to browse: 1) JAMA 287, 12, 27 Mar 2002--Antiaging Criticized, and 2) JAMA 288, 18, 13 Nov 2002--Hgh and Sex Steroid Admin in a Controlled Trial (elderly: 65 to 88). Both articles are on the web at no charge. For the Luddities:

To "This is shit": The book also suggests diet, exercise and bad practice reduction first. Agree, but I am not so close minded to alternatives. Depending on your age, health and lifestyle practices crutches may be helpful. I did not ask any question. I suppose you do not need Minoxidil for hair, Viagra for ED, and a host of other meds for general health.

To "By the Way": I thought I was continuing the previous thread for individuals who wanted to read more about Hgh. While Arg was discussed, no mention was made of Glutamine--doses, regimens, and cofactors. Read the book if interested.

To "Grow Young": I do not advocate male steriods for use in women, especially andro analogs. Women who do the physical enhancements already know which steriods to take, doses, and cycles. Men should be aware of the risk/benefits and ways to minimize them. Finally, Hgh is nonsteriodal and recommended in physiological doses. Women do take it on a regular basis for antiaging.

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