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"has anyone noticed this?"

 
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Mandy (13 posts) Click to send private message to Mandy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 02:33 AM (PDT)
"has anyone noticed this?"
There are some VERY ANGRY guys on the other board... I had the very unfortunate pleasure of meeting one of them..... Can anyone (providers) tell me where the other blacklist is is? (he is on it now) I missed one of these "famous" guys on the other board because he claimed to be a referral from a friend of mine who later told me she couldn't stand the guy!?
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TheBopper (194 posts) Click to send private message to TheBopper Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 08:51 AM (PDT)
1. "RE: has anyone noticed this?"
By other board, do you mean the General Discussion of Redbook, or Redbook's competition? I find that I hardly keep up on the General board anymore with the Conservatory. I hope kmasack doesn't find us over here, especially if he saw Panther's post on Mora.
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panther (463 posts) Click to send private message to panther Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 06:03 PM (PDT)
4. "TheBopper..."
>>"I hope kmasack doesn't find us over here, especially if he saw Panther's post on Mora."

Explain?


panther

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TheBopper (194 posts) Click to send private message to TheBopper Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
27-Apr-01, 09:51 AM (PDT)
13. "RE: TheBopper..."
Panther,
Kmasack started about 10 raging, flaming threads in the General Discussion board about providers who don't return calls. You posted that you had tried to contact Mora and didn't get a return call. That's all.
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panther (463 posts) Click to send private message to panther Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
27-Apr-01, 12:42 PM (PDT)
14. "RE: TheBopper..."
Thanks, Bopper, I didn't understand what it meant.



panther

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tiny100 (81 posts) Click to send private message to tiny100 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 10:26 AM (PDT)
2. "RE: has anyone noticed this?"
I think its just typical of the web.People have no problem saying what they want behind the monitor.Drinking probly is a big part of it.I just don't know why they just don't move on and fine another provider.I don't know if a blacklist really works considering the odds of the persons being honest and giving info
that would be matched on such lists.Funny thing is there are way to many ladies out there that will see them and know nothing about a list or RB.

my 2 cents

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TheGreek (307 posts) Click to send private message to TheGreek Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 10:41 AM (PDT)
3. "If you don't get a response here..."
LAST EDITED ON 26-Apr-01 AT 10:42 AM (PDT)

You might try contacting Lynn Davis; I figure she would be pretty in the know. I don't have her contact info handy, but she's on Eros-Guide I believe.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, hopefully it will be the last of its kind. Good Luck!

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Tin_Man (40 posts) Click to send private message to Tin_Man Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 06:19 PM (PDT)
5. "Question"
Hi Mandy and ever one else
I don't normally post to much but I do lurk everyday
I have a question about the person I think your talking about.
How can he be SO different to different people.
I have spoken with him and he seems to be a cool guy.
My ATF likes him and he has NEVER treated her bad..EVER
HE has a valid point on no call back but so does everyone else.
I just tend to brush them off and go about finding someone else.
I agree he may have taken thing to far but attacking him and others for having the feelings they have
Is that right?
OK OK I just ranting and will probably get flamed for speaking out. But HELL I'm made of Tin and I think I'm a nice person.

I hope you can shed some light on why everyone is attacking this person.
If anyone would like respond to my mail box, I will discuss it further...
I hope I hear from you or anyone else
Thanks for the rant
Happy Hunting all
The Tin_Man

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sson_of_sam (227 posts) Click to EMail sson_of_sam Click to send private message to sson_of_sam Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 06:26 PM (PDT)
6. "Tin..."
...So it's your understanding that everyone is attacking HIM?
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Tin_Man (40 posts) Click to send private message to Tin_Man Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 06:41 PM (PDT)
7. "RE: Tin..."
Not everyone
But I watched as people started to threaten to black list him and say how lousy a person he is
At least in his eyes it was a valid bitch about no call backs and I know how much of a pain that can be.
I'm just spoiled that my ATF calls back.. Even if it's the next day...
Maybe by saying everyone I over stated it....
But was all that happened really worth it???
Threatening to black list or do stuff....
To start attacking him personally.
YES I know he was attacking also and there is no excuse for the names he used and comments he made.
But heck.... Each person responds differently to what they feel is an attack.
OH well

Do you think no one was attacking him?
I guess it could be considered defending themselves
On both sides?
SO what did you think happened?
Happy Hunting
Tin_Man

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sson_of_sam (227 posts) Click to EMail sson_of_sam Click to send private message to sson_of_sam Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 06:57 PM (PDT)
8. "RE: Tin..."
Thank you for responding to my query.
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TheGreek (307 posts) Click to send private message to TheGreek Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 07:26 PM (PDT)
9. "Anger and objectification are the keys..."
First of all, I'm not sure Mandy is talking about KMSASK. And it sounds as though she is talking about somebody who she actually met and had problems with, not somebody who she just heard had issues with anger.

Anyway, the point is that, of everything that may put a off provider, especially an independent, anger is the worst. If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense since anger can lead to violence. So while most of the men who read these boards don't think the anger displayed is such a big deal, the women see it very differently.

I would say that, second on the list, is dealing with someone who doesn't treat you like a human being who should have choices. For instance, if some guy really believes that providers should see ANYBODY that calls them, regardless of what the guy is like because he is carrying the right amount of money, that provider is also dealing with a man who doesn't think of her as a person. He would not take her health or safety or life or feelings seriously, and at BEST the provider would have an unpleasant experience. At worst, she might end up badly hurt or dead!

A provider's safety (again especially for independents) is only as good as ALL the tools she can use to avoid violent and problematic men. She HAS to be extremely sensitive about conversations she has with her prospective client, and the smart ones HAVE to use bad john lists.

So if you call up a provider and come off pissed off or impatient with them or as though you are entitled to anything you want without regard to their feelings, you are creating an impression on them of somebody they don't want to have ANY dealings with. And you can end up on a bad john list. You may not think this is fair, but life isn't fair. And you should try to learn from these postings, not just rebutt them (and I'm not saying you are).

Anyway, I hope this post helps bridge the gap for some of the guys who read these boards as I really don't think many of them are aware of the impression they create. For others, they way the talk and act is really just a part of who they are, and that can't be helped.

If I'm on the right track, it would lend credence if some of you ladies would say so. Or to state that I'm wrong if I am. We are hopefully creating a dialog here!

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justwhaturlooking4 (54 posts) Click to EMail justwhaturlooking4 Click to send private message to justwhaturlooking4 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
27-Apr-01, 05:44 PM (PDT)
18. "RE: Anger and objectification are the keys..."
Greek, that was an excellent post! You tell it like it is. Thank you! : ) Lynn
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panther (463 posts) Click to send private message to panther Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 07:29 PM (PDT)
10. "RE: Question"
Tin Man:

I agree with you that he had a valid point about the call backs, but it was pretty hard to hear that through all the namecalling and viciousness.

You said:

"YES I know he was attacking also and there is no excuse for the names he used and comments he made...."

And he found some people who were into engaging with him on that level. It just becomes spewing shit back and forth and it's very dehumanizing and peole get hurt.

I think he took the unreturned calls very personally as directed against HIM, when it's much more likely that it had everything to do with the providers' laziness, busy-ness, spaciness etc.

I can empathize with his reaction. I'm not as extreme, but I've certainly had similar feelings.


panther

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Tin_Man (40 posts) Click to send private message to Tin_Man Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 09:20 PM (PDT)
11. "Panther and Greek"
Panther and Greek
You both said it so well
Thanks for voicing your sane voices
I always enjoy ready both of your post.
Some I fall out of my chair laughing and other are pretty thought provoking.
Thanks
Take care and have fun out there
The Tin_Man
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Nicole_Farallon (158 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 10:23 PM (PDT)
12. "RE: Question"
I am pretty sure that the girls were not returning his calls on purpose. I have spoken to a few girls who were concerned that he would call them. They saw his posts and were frightened. I have never met the man, and so I do not know personally what he is like. I did speak to someone who had an appointment, and while she said he was not violent, she found him to be condescending and not pleasant. Think about it, he is complaining mostly about girls that he has seen before not calling him back. I know that if I have seen someone, and it was a good experience, I make sure to call back promptly.
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bigdrawls (216 posts) Click to send private message to bigdrawls Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
27-Apr-01, 12:52 PM (PDT)
15. "RE: Question"
You hit it on the head Nicole. By the end of his first week on Redbook I figured the girls were afraid of him.
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human_genome (813 posts) Click to send private message to human_genome Click to check IP address of the poster
27-Apr-01, 03:53 PM (PDT)
16. "RE: has anyone noticed this?"
I think Mandy (and others) was part of a thread awhile back where another provider had posted she was abused by a violent client. For legal reasons RB would not post details regarding the guy. Perhaps this is the reason for her question. It's too bad there isn't a better protection for the girls from the "out there" guys (the big problems).
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justwhaturlooking4 (54 posts) Click to EMail justwhaturlooking4 Click to send private message to justwhaturlooking4 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
27-Apr-01, 05:40 PM (PDT)
17. "RE: has anyone noticed this?"
Contact www.lynndavis.com I think she would help put you in touch with the Cyprian Guild. If you attend their meetings, you may be able to get their list of unsafe clients (or "blacklist.")
Some guys get so upset about blacklists. Providers are just looking out for each other by tipping each other off about violent and abusive clients, and ones who dont pay or underpay.
Guys who complain about blacklists dont care about the violence directed against providers. We have the greatest chance of being a victim of violence, especially murder, of anyone. Just look at the posts at this site...they show the level of misogyny felt by so many guys....they direct it all at providers, because it is socially acceptable hostility and hatred. Read the putdown terms used.....ho, bitch, etc.... these guys probably wouldn't call as African American '.,' but to call a sex worker 'ho' is fine to them.....one guy called me that at this site the other day, and when someone objected, he replied- well she does sex for money, so that's what she is.... I guess if he were questioned about using "." he'd say- well he has dark skin, so that's what he is!!! My point is it is still ok to dislike us just for what we are....if we dont look out for us, who is going to??? Lynn
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Big_John (41 posts) Click to EMail Big_John Click to send private message to Big_John Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
28-Apr-01, 00:53 AM (PDT)
19. "RE: has anyone noticed this?"
I don't have any problem with women having a blacklist. I agree that this is a dangerous profession that puts people into very compromising positions (literally and figurativly). How much difference is there between that and Redbook (though many reviews are very graphic) the goal is to warn on the rob's and put light on the gems.
On what the ladies are called, I never like any of the "derogatory" terms. I always thought they were rude. Hooker/Street Walker, Escort, AMP girl, Stripper. Different names that can clearly define a "type" of service (at least in my mind).
I believe all people deserve my respect, until it is shown to me they don't want it. If someone is disrespectful to me I just don't need to deal with it and won't have anything to do with them, not worth the agony. If I am rude/disrespectful to a lady I would not expect her to return my calls. The same in reverse, I wouldn't call them either. I have several "friends" (real ones) that I have stopped contacting for reasons like this.

Big John

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Tin_Man (40 posts) Click to send private message to Tin_Man Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
28-Apr-01, 09:00 AM (PDT)
20. "RE: has anyone noticed this?"
Thank you everyone that has posted to my question.
The discussion has been insightful
I really like the way things are handled in the conservatory...
Everyone accepts each others point of view and discusses it.. NOT lash out at each other when we see things differently(most of the time)
I hope all have a great day.
The Tin_Man
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