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nikk (81 posts) Click to send private message to nikk Click to check IP address of the poster
24-Apr-01, 05:26 PM (PDT)
"A question..."
In light of recent threads concerning client/provider realations, It made me wonder as to how we as consumers view women in the sex trade. Is a elite escort really any different than a dancer who does extras or a MP girl who does full service, in a moral sense? Why is there such a disdain for women in this line of work? Are they really "morally decrepid", or instead are they taking full advantage of all the oppertunities they have in life? IMHO trading money for sex is nothing than a buisness transaction between two consenting adults, and why that should be illegal is a mystery I will never uderstand. But does that make the women in this industry any less desireable than, for instance, other women who are not involved in the sex trade, for a partner in a serious relationship? or on the contrary does this make them even more desireable? It makes me laugh when someone posts that all providers are whores or even worse "cum recepticles", because I have to wonder what kind of twisted individual would think that way, and would a self respecting provider really want that person for a client anyway?
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Hezekiah (66 posts) Click to send private message to Hezekiah Click to check IP address of the poster
24-Apr-01, 06:25 PM (PDT)
1. "Am I a hypocrite?"
If providers are merely "cum recepticles" then what are garbage collectors? Or proctologists? Or counselling psychologists? It's possible to think up derogatory expressions for any profession.

My father taught me in the strongest terms to never criticize people for doing honest work. I think sex work should be included in that category, because the providers are not intentionally trying to defraud us. They are providing a service that is not easily obtainable elsewhere. They work hard to increase their skill in their art.

Now having said all that, I have to admit my hypocrisy and biases: I don't think I would feel comfortable if my wife started being a provider. There is something particularly intimate about sex.

And I keep thinking (probably irrationally) that in an ideal world where we could all make our relationships work well, there would be no need for sex workers. But I think that might be fundamentally wrong thinking.

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Lorrett (2 posts) Click to send private message to Lorrett Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
24-Apr-01, 08:35 PM (PDT)
3. "RE: Am I a hypocrite?"
I don't think
>I would feel comfortable if
>my wife started being a
>provider. There is something
>particularly intimate about sex.
>
First of all, quit beating on yourself. At least part of your thinking is pure biology: YOUR mate means the survival of YOUR genes. That being said, consider what you said about sex. Is ALL sex "particuarly intimate?" I think not. There's intimate sex, with deep communication and friendship, there's playful sex, that's friendly but not particularly deep, there's hungry sex, that relieves stress and fulfills an immediate physical and/or psychological need, there's even angry sex, that's used as a weapon to humiliate the other person, or substantiate an "unfriendly takeover", whether the rape is consented to or not.

The person who can share his/her mate with others is not common. If nothing else, he/she has to overcome fears that someone else might "take" that precious someone "away" from them. Relationships that can thrive while one or the other partner gives his/her skills and caring to others, though, are deep indeed. I know -- I've been blessed enough to be in one!

>And I keep thinking (probably irrationally)
>that in an ideal world
>where we could all make
>our relationships work well, there
>would be no need for
>sex workers.

I must disagree with you there. There is no such thing as two people who can share all of each other's tastes, fulfill all of each other's needs, and be all things to one another. The alternative to this impossible dream is that each must either give up the puzzle pieces that don't fit, or work them into different pictures. Additionally, many people are very fearful of experimenting with their primary partner. What if it doesn't work? What if one of them likes something too much and the other doesn't like it at all? WHAT IF THEY LAUGH???

There will always be a need for the caring, understanding professional, just as there will always be a need for intimate, committed partners. There is no discrepancy between these things, just as there is no discrepancy between choosing steak, salad or chocolate cake to satisfy those other appetites. Enjoy your life, be both kind and honorable in your dealings with others, and you'll be the happier for it.

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Wuzzel (2 posts) Click to EMail Wuzzel Click to send private message to Wuzzel Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26-Apr-01, 00:35 AM (PDT)
18. "RE: Am I a hypocrite?"
>I must disagree with you there.
> There is no such
>thing as two people who
>can share all of each
>other's tastes, fulfill all of
>each other's needs, and be
>all things to one another.

Dead on! But it can be hard on your partner's ego to make this explicit.

> The alternative to this
>impossible dream is that each
>must either give up the
>puzzle pieces that don't fit,
>or work them into different
>pictures. Additionally, many people
>are very fearful of experimenting
>with their primary partner.
>What if it doesn't work?
> What if one of
>them likes something too much
>and the other doesn't like
>it at all? WHAT
>IF THEY LAUGH???
>
>There will always be a need
>for the caring, understanding professional,
>just as there will always
>be a need for intimate,
>committed partners. There is
>no discrepancy between these things,
>just as there is no
>discrepancy between choosing steak, salad
>or chocolate cake to satisfy
>those other appetites. Enjoy
>your life, be both kind
>and honorable in your dealings
>with others, and you'll be
>the happier for it.

Yours was a very enlightened posting. Thanks.

Given that your partner expects monogamy and thinks they should fulfill all your needs, is it honorable to not tell your partner about your needs, and/or to see a provider without telling your partner?

I'm not trying to make anybody feel guilty or accuse anybody. I'm in this sort of situation myself.

Wuzzel

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panther (451 posts) Click to send private message to panther Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
24-Apr-01, 06:27 PM (PDT)
2. "RE: A question..."
>>Is a elite escort really any different than a dancer who does >>extras or a MP girl who does full service, in a moral sense?

No. But her self image and those of her clients probably is, including -- and this is important but never talked about in our culture: economic class. There IS a 'working class', a so called 'middle class', and then an 'owning/upper class'. The amounts of money involved, the backgrounds of the participants and the settings are significant.

Also, and this is probably even MORE important than the above: peoples' needs for a particular context/situation in which they can express their sexuality drive the type of game they want to play BIG TIME. Not to mention that the providers themselves have to look a very specific way (hair color, shape of breasts etc) for each client that we may not even be conscious of.

This can lead to very specific requests/locations etc which also partly explains why 'the same old paid for sex' occurs in so many different 'venues.' And the learned notion that sex is something 'dirty' and 'bad', or that heterosexual marriage is somehow ordained by the one and only GOD (!)-- means sometimes that the more guilty, seedy, shameful,punishing the experience is, the more that's the way it's 'supposed' to be.

Don't get me started.....oops!



panther

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nikk (81 posts) Click to send private message to nikk Click to check IP address of the poster
24-Apr-01, 09:17 PM (PDT)
4. "RE: A question..."
that is all well and good, but I just wonder what it is that makes us as a society look down upon sex workers in general. In reality, the wage earned versus the amount of work neccesary to earn said wage is nearly incomparable in the modern workplace, especially with high end escorts. I assume that a long time ago, when I purchased my first hour of glory, I erased all the stgmatisms associated with providers i my own mind. To me they serve a very meaningful purpose in life.
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escritic (1405 posts) Click to send private message to escritic Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
24-Apr-01, 09:58 PM (PDT)
5. "One Word For You"

Religion (namely Christianity)

Here is an example for you: sodomy.
Check out where it comes from.

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Strong (910 posts) Click to send private message to Strong Click to check IP address of the poster
24-Apr-01, 10:21 PM (PDT)
6. "RE: One Word For You"
Many of the women that I see as escorts I could see being dancers at the same time. Most of them though like the one on one aspect of being an escort rather than stripping in front of a large audience. I treat the women I see with a respect that I would give anyone else. I don't think less of them as I would hope they would not think less of me for wanting to see them.
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Nicole_Farallon (146 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
24-Apr-01, 11:43 PM (PDT)
7. "RE: One Word For You"
I certainly do not think less of guys who would want to see me, or other dancers or providers. Most of them are normal guys who want to have a hot time. Or they can be shy and seeing a provider can be a confidence builder. Of course there are some guys who see providers because they are socially retarded and women would not give the time of day unless they were paid. Thankfully, I have had only a few of those guys.
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Strong (910 posts) Click to send private message to Strong Click to check IP address of the poster
24-Apr-01, 11:52 PM (PDT)
8. "RE: One Word For You"
I just like seeing providers mainly because of variety and not having to do all the romantic dating stuff beforehand. We get right into having fun and that's the way I like it.
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Nicole_Farallon (146 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
25-Apr-01, 00:05 AM (PDT)
9. "RE: One Word For You"
A lot of guys that come to see me seem to be in that situation. They just want to have some fun, but not be in a relationship. I think that seeing a provider is better than lying to a girl just to sleep with her because you are horny. And hopefully your provider won't bombard you with calls, or show up at your house unexpectadly because you haven't called her
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bigsnausage (14 posts) Click to send private message to bigsnausage Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25-Apr-01, 00:29 AM (PDT)
10. "RE: One Word For You"
I am in that situation where I am not looking for all the ties and headaches of a relationship right now. The problem is that I still want sex and I don't want to lead someone on by having sex with them. Women (not all) seem to get much more possessive and marriage minded once they start sleeping with you. Sometimes I wish women weren't so damn set on getting married and were more open to just enjoying sex without having to make such a huge freaking deal about it.
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dilligaf (556 posts) Click to send private message to dilligaf Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25-Apr-01, 00:38 AM (PDT)
11. "RE: One Word For You"
>I am in that situation where
>I am not looking for
>all the ties and headaches
>of a relationship right now.
> The problem is that
>I still want sex and
>I don't want to lead
>someone on by having sex
>with them. Women (not
>all) seem to get much
>more possessive and marriage minded
>once they start sleeping with
>you. Sometimes I wish
>women weren't so damn set
>on getting married and were
>more open to just enjoying
>sex without having to make
>such a huge freaking deal
>about it.

A couple of years ago I was in a similar situation. There was a fellow that I knew and like and the feeling was mutual. I basically offered him uncomplicated sex - no strings attached. It was all I wanted at that particular time of my life...semi-regular nookie with someone that I knew and was attracted too without all the relationship baggage.

He of course could not believe how kindly the gods had smiled down upon him and for about two months things were great...until HE started wanting more, complaining that I never called, never wanted to know what he was doing etc. etc. etc.

*sigh* he was nice too!


Dilly


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panther (451 posts) Click to send private message to panther Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25-Apr-01, 00:54 AM (PDT)
12. "You here, dilly?"
LAST EDITED ON 25-Apr-01 AT 00:58 AM (PDT)

Well.....maybe not. It's late.

Happy day to you.

Hope you did something fun.

G'night.



panther

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FreeWillyDave (370 posts) Click to send private message to FreeWillyDave Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25-Apr-01, 00:57 AM (PDT)
13. "can I be your boy-toy? (EOM)"
:p

FWD

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panther (451 posts) Click to send private message to panther Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25-Apr-01, 01:01 AM (PDT)
14. "gee....."
...why do I have this funny feeling that wasn't directed to me?

Ok folks, nothin' to see here...let's keep it movin'.....


panther

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escritic (1405 posts) Click to send private message to escritic Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25-Apr-01, 01:35 AM (PDT)
15. "RE: gee....."

I don't know.
Let's see...
You girls are complaining about not meeting any nice guys.
Then you just dumped one like he was HIV positive.

Hmm....
What's 1 + 1 again?


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dilligaf (556 posts) Click to send private message to dilligaf Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25-Apr-01, 07:57 PM (PDT)
16. "RE: gee....."
>
>I don't know.
>Let's see...
>You girls are complaining about not
>meeting any nice guys.
>Then you just dumped one like
>he was HIV positive.
>
>Hmm....
>What's 1 + 1 again?


If you are refering to my post, it happened a couple of years ago when all I wanted was someone nice to play with with no strings attached. He supposedly wanted the same thing, he decided that he wanted more, he got benched!

He was about 15 years older than I was, had a house, his own business and a couple of grown up kids. He was very settled with his life. I, on the other hand, wanted to travel and eventually have a critter of my own one day. It was not an ideal 'long term' situation for either of us but I knew that we could at least enjoy ourselves in the short term.

I think I did the right thing.

Dilly


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escritic (1405 posts) Click to send private message to escritic Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25-Apr-01, 08:10 PM (PDT)
17. "RE: gee....."

It's all about give and take or how much you are willing to compromise.

Time can be merciless.

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