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"RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."

 
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synesthetic (344 posts) Click to send private message to synesthetic Click to check IP address of the poster
18-Apr-01, 11:31 PM (PDT)
"RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
I am curious as to what members of the RB community think of Biker's posts in the Street Action section of explicit photos of women whom he has had sex with.
As for me, the photos seem degrading to the women (and Biker too).
Something seems very seedy about it, and although I usually have no trouble with words, I lack a way of describing accurately what is wrong about this.
I am all for freedom of speech, and do not like censorship, but somehow I think these photos should not be permitted to be posted on Redbook's message board. It reflects on RB in general.
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BUBBAGUMP (2 posts) Click to send private message to BUBBAGUMP Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
18-Apr-01, 11:52 PM (PDT)
1. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE SUCH THINGS. DO NOT LOOK NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO DO SO
OR DO YOU THINK YOU ARE BETTER THAN THE REST OF US.
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escritic (1347 posts) Click to send private message to escritic Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 01:30 AM (PDT)
3. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."

Beside, it takes three clicks to see the pics (one for the link, one for the adult content warning and another for which folder), unless you already bookmark the site. In that case, what are you complaining about?

What's the difference between escorts posrting their pics on their ads?
You know that they are prostitutes and they have sex with guys just like SWs do.
Are you anti-porn or something? If you are, I don't think you should make this as your hobby in the first place.

What's so seedy about Biker's pics?

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synesthetic (344 posts) Click to send private message to synesthetic Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 07:45 AM (PDT)
4. "Okay..."
I get the point.
I am not anti-porn, nor against prostitution.
You are right. It does take 3 clicks to get there.
Maybe I just don't like the quality of the pictures. Perhaps I am getting too philosophical about this endeavor (or hobby).
I just wonder if they have consented to having their pictures posted on the internet where anyone (such as their friends or relatives) can see?
If they have not consented, then it's an invasion of privacy.
When I post here on the internet, I know that anyone can read it, and that it is under a name that is anonymous. I also know that anyone who is very computer savvy can find my real name. I am fine with that risk.
I am not so sure that all of those women know they are going to have their pictures posted on a public forum where anyone can see them. There is still a large number of people out there who don't use computers and are not familiar with what you can do with a photo on the www..
Finally, in answer to what is so seedy about those pics, close up photos of a shaved pussy with a swatch of hair above and big stomach looks seedy to me. Having looked at a lot of quality porn and some bad porn, and being a part time portrait photographer, some of the photos are poor quality porn in my opinion.
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pokekingmon (128 posts) Click to send private message to pokekingmon Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 01:25 AM (PDT)
2. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
hey these girls know why he is taking their pictures. so far i know every girl that he's taken pictures of and beleive me they like it. + these photos are not on RB they are on his MSN site if you don't want to see then don't click on the link. just my 2 cents!! PEACE

Pokekingmon
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MOJO (154 posts) Click to send private message to MOJO Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 07:50 AM (PDT)
5. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
synesthetic,

I have enjoyed Biker's post's over the time he has been on RB, and I think he really brings a lot to the board. I have often thought about driving out to Stockton, he makes it sound so romantic.

But he also has never lied, these women are drug addicts, usually homeless street walkers, he just makes it sound good. (if that is possible)

I have somewhat of the same reaction that you have to the pictures, they are degrading and seedy. I too do not like censorship, but would never give up that right, just to keep some pictures off the internet. I am glad the pic's went up, now I know I will not go to Stockton, not my cup of tea. Some like that situation, I personally do not. And I will not judge those who do.

I think the pictures put some reality into the SW scene, and for me it is very sad and that is why I have a similair feeling about them as you.( I lack a
way of describing accurately what is wrong about this.)

It is real and it is not for me to decide what is posted on RB.


Peace-out
MOJO

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Strong (843 posts) Click to send private message to Strong Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 09:10 AM (PDT)
7. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
I don't see anything wrong with it. These girls are obviously posing for him.
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FreeWillyDave (354 posts) Click to send private message to FreeWillyDave Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 09:09 AM (PDT)
6. "my reaction"
I had to take a look at Biker's pics, and...

while I agree that some may react that they are seedy, I don't think that they were taken in the spirit of degrading anybody.

It kind of shows how much of a romanticized view we have of the hobby and the women we see in it. Most guys don't want to know of or see the desperation/hard choices some of these women make to get into the biz in the first place. I think it shows some openness and even courage for Biker to share these with us. The pics are completely undoctored, and taken during candid, relaxed moments. I think they might eventually be the makings of a good photo-journal and published as a book.

I have to say that the girls do look like they are addicted to something. They obviously don't get a lot of sun, and they look unnaturally skinny. The way their eyes focus on the camera is a bit unnerving, too.

But considering how much Biker brings to RB and our knowledge of the hobby in the greater bay area, I think he's due at least the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his intentions.

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Nicole_Farallon (117 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 11:19 AM (PDT)
8. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
Well, I guess that if you read that thread, you saw my reaction! Biker says that the young looking girls are not underage, so hopefully that is true. And if that is true, I apologize for the "exploiting children" comment. But, I do think that it is wrong for him to post the young girls pictures. He said something like don't mention the pictures, he had to work hard to gain their trust. And look what he did, posted their pictures on a website and says that they are crack hoes!! I do not care what consenting adults do. I don't think that the street scene is the greatest, but it is there. But his pictures really left me with a sick feeling.
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Kwanz (323 posts) Click to send private message to Kwanz Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 11:37 AM (PDT)
9. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
Looking at the pics left me with a very bad taste in mymouth. I looked at the effects of drugs on beautiful women. Just imagine how beautiful those women would have looked without the drugs making them look that bad.
It just proves to show us what an evil thing addiction is, may it be drugs or sex or alcohol. If we look or just smell the people who are addicted to tobacco we realise how bad they smell. With drugs the young ladies in the pics can be seen with all those different marks on their bodies which make them look awful.
I would rather look at Nicole's beautiful body than those pics. I can just close my eyes and imagine what Nicole looks like in her nude glory with the clit pierced. WOW now i can keep that in my memory. It is the best image to keep.
Flaka or sophia is not the image i would love to imagine or dream about.
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Nicole_Farallon (117 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 11:43 AM (PDT)
10. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
Thanks Kwanz! You are right, the pictures show where drugs can take you. Biker himself said that these women are ugly, sick and desperate, but they fulfill his sexual needs. Pretty sad.
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TheBopper (163 posts) Click to send private message to TheBopper Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 12:41 PM (PDT)
11. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
If you read Biker's post, he says that he showed the girls the Internet and they then wanted their pictures posted, so I see nothing wrong with it.

I'm surprised that you bring this to the Conservatory, since it is clearly a streetwalker's discussion topic. Also, if you're going to comment, what about Yomon's posts, as he also posts contact information. But in both cases the girls are want the exposure.

Also, as others pointed out, the pictures are not posted on Redbook, only the link and background information.

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Hezekiah (40 posts) Click to send private message to Hezekiah Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 12:52 PM (PDT)
12. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
Well I'm glad to see this in the conservatory. This is a contentful discussion with real members and little flaming. This is what conservatory is for.
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odoggy (83 posts) Click to send private message to odoggy Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 01:18 PM (PDT)
13. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
I find nothing objectionable with Biker's posts or pictures. Or Yomon's for that matter. It is in the street section and considering the subject matter; it is tastefully presented.

The fact that any person is strung out on narcotics and has spun out of the "main stream" of society is horrible. Biker, posted digital pictures, prostitution is not to blame for any of this.

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Macrocat (13 posts) Click to EMail Macrocat Click to send private message to Macrocat Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 01:38 PM (PDT)
14. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
Hi, guys.
I find the photos exciting. They remind me of my salad days, when I would spend Friday nights in the Tenderloin seeing what I could find. The girls in the photos would have been just fine for me (and would be even now, except for the long drive, and LE).

These days I see escorts, and find them much fun despite the high costs. Yet, there is nothing quite like finding your pleasures walking about, and being able to discuss what's on your mind directly. I can relate to Biker: made casual friends with a few of them and saw them regularly. One offered to cook me dinner!

Keep up the good work.
Macrocat

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escritic (1347 posts) Click to send private message to escritic Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 01:58 PM (PDT)
15. "To synesthetic"

synesthetic:

> I just wonder if they have consented to having their pictures >posted on the internet where
> anyone (such as their friends or relatives) can see?
> If they have not consented, then it's an invasion of > privacy.

I agree with you on this one.

> Finally, in answer to what is so seedy about those >pics, close up photos of a shaved pussy
> with a swatch of hair above and big stomach looks >seedy to me. Having looked at a lot of
> quality porn and some bad porn, and being a part >time portrait photographer, some of the
> photos are poor quality porn in my opinion.

Biker never claimed to be a pro and he does this in his own time to enhance the total experience in the street scene. Like I said in another thread, I don't find those girls attractive but I still appreciate Biker's effort. As far as I know, he doesn't have to post the pics and he doesn't gain much by doing so, just like yomon.



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escritic (1347 posts) Click to send private message to escritic Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 02:03 PM (PDT)
16. "To Nicole "
Nicole:

>Biker says that the young looking
> girls are not underage, so hopefully that is true. And if >that is true, I apologize for the "exploiting
> children" comment.

Biker has stated that he doesn't date underaged girls in many posts. If you really want to apologize, tell Biker personally (email, phone, whatever).

>But, I do think that it is wrong for him to post the young girls >pictures.

You really want to label him to exploit underaged girls, don't you?

>He said
> something like don't mention the pictures, he had to work >hard to gain their trust. And look what
> he did, posted their pictures on a website and says that >they are crack hoes!!

Have you ever lied? Are you saying that you never lied? PLEASE!
If they aren't crack hoes, what are they? Stockton tour guide?
They are whores that do crack. Live with it.


>I do not care what
> consenting adults do. I don't think that the street scene >is the greatest, but it is there. But his
> pictures really left me with a sick feeling.

If you didn't want to see them, you didn't have to because they were shown as thumbnails. You must have enlarged the pictures and look at them very carefully. That says something about you, doesin't it?


> Biker himself said
> that these women are ugly, sick and desperate, but >they fulfill his sexual needs. Pretty sad.

So being pretty gives you the right to sell your body for money?
Now who is sad here? Not to mention about being shallow.

Before you give us another "Hollier Than Thou" speech, please look at yourself first.


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Nicole_Farallon (117 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 03:23 PM (PDT)
17. "RE: To Nicole "
Escritic, for whatever reason you seem to have a bone to pick with me. I think that it offends you that I find this whole situation sad. Maybe because you don't want to admit to yourself that taking advantage of desperate drug addicts is wrong. Your logic in saying that being pretty "gives me the right to sell my body" is completely moronic. That is not what I meant at all, Biker HIMSELF said that these women were UGLY, SICK and DESPERATE, but he did not care because they fullfilled his needs!That to me sounds shallow. And what is this about going on about lying? Are you drinking or something because that makes no sense! You have no idea who I am, or how I treat others. I try to treat everyone that I meet with kindness and respect. I have stopped seeing clients because I knew that could not afford to see me, and were getting too attached. And, sometimes when I danced, guys would give me a 100 or 50 instead of a twenty and I would call that to their attention. It sounds to me like YOU are copping a "wholier than thou" attitude!
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odoggy (83 posts) Click to send private message to odoggy Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 03:57 PM (PDT)
18. "RE: To Nicole "
Since all these responses are Opinions; there is no right or wrong here.

But Nicole, Escritic makes some sound observations and your response-like your initial comments-sound very narrow and high minded. It must be nice to be so close to being a perfect person like you are; IMHO(of course).

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Nicole_Farallon (117 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 04:05 PM (PDT)
19. "RE: To Nicole "
I am not trying to be "wholier than thou" or anything like that. When Biker first posted he said not to mention the internet to these girls. Later he said that he had showed at least one of the girls, and she was okay with that. Fine! I do think that it is sad though! And, I realize that these girls are voluntarily selling their bodies so they can buy drugs. But, I think that Biker's bragging that he is paying such a low amount of money to women he knows are "sick and desperate" is disgusting. That is my opinion! That is not fact, or written in stone. And the other women that he showed (I haven't looked at any he has posted since yesterday) looked drugged out and not happy. I just find the whole situation sad. That is my opinion, and I reserve the right to be wrong.
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Kwanz (323 posts) Click to send private message to Kwanz Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 04:22 PM (PDT)
22. "RE: To Nicole "
AS you said they are opinions. Every tom dick and harry has his or her own and they all have different morals. If we look past that and see the reasons then we will see we all agree on basic decency of the human being.
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nooner (40 posts) Click to send private message to nooner Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 04:09 PM (PDT)
20. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
Lets remember the setting in which these pictures were taken.
With the correct back ground, lighting and brush work these girls could look like models,(look what Playboy did with
Joan Collins).
Plain and simple these girls sell their bodies for money. That is their choice. With the exception of quality and price, how is it any different than the escort business?
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Nicole_Farallon (117 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 04:19 PM (PDT)
21. "RE: RB and Biker's photos in Street Action..."
Well, for what it is worth, I have never heard of a girl saying that walking the streets because she was a drug addict and needed money was a positive experience for her. I know of many escorts who do like their jobs, or at least don't hate it. It is their choice, but I don't think that they would be having 4 hours of sex for $60, if they weren't in a desperate situation. I just think that taking advantage of others' misfortune is bad karma. Again, this is all opinion not fact.
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synesthetic (344 posts) Click to send private message to synesthetic Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 08:09 PM (PDT)
23. "Good points and one other thought..."
I brought up this topic in the Conservatory because I thought it would be a good place to have a serious discussion about a controversial action that concerns all of Redbook.
When a member posts graphic pictures of women who are prostitutes who work the streets and most likely have substance abuse problems, there has got to be some strong feelings generated.
There were some very good points made, and it made me re-think the entire subject.
First, I was not aware that these girls were shown the internet and all of them agreed to have their pictures posted. I still wonder whether they were aware that once their pictures were posted, the entire world could see them, in greater detail than they probably see themselves. So if they have consented, then the invasion of privacy issue is a dead one.
Second, the pictures do present a graphic representation of the street scene, and they remind me of one reason why I no longer pursue that context. The seediness, the drugs, the shattered lives, all mount up and you become part of their world. In the end, that's not where I want to be. The pictures document one small part of the street scene, and that is good.
Finally, I would like to talk about how different an experience it is to make love to a girl off the streets, who appreciates someone who is nice to her, takes her to a nice house where she can shower and get clean, and talk with someone who is willing to listen.
Many of the girls from the street have a different mindset towards prostitution: It's less of a business and more of a way of getting out of the cold, and having some human interaction with a person who is not like them. Some of the sweetest women I have ever met have been from the streets.
But in the end, it defeats one of my goals in life, which is finding a meaningful, long term relationship.
Yes, I still believe in the power of love, after three long term relationships that were terminated either by me, or through a mutual decision. I can't pursue my goal of a real relationship that will last when I am spending all my free time looking for the ultimate GFE; and they are out there.
In some ways the best GFEs from the street can be better than a real GFE. Because you can walk away from it easily, or you can repeat it week after week if you find someone who likes you, and you "click" with them. I was lucky and found 3 in just one year. What a year! Some of the greatest sex and wildest personal adventures I have ever had.
But it get's draining after awhile, and it doesn't last.
You can't depend on a streetwalker, and they either leave the area, die, or slowly self destruct due to the destructive effects of doing powerful illegal drugs everyday.
But it was one long series of incredible, real, and very sensual experiences. I wouldn't trade it for anything. It was heaven!
But it does not last.
I want something that lasts.
And you cannot find it on the streets.
With all my respect to all the women who are prostitutes no matter where they work,
synesthetic
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Nicole_Farallon (117 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 08:12 PM (PDT)
24. "RE: Good points and one other thought..."
Excellent post!!
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pokekingmon (128 posts) Click to send private message to pokekingmon Click to check IP address of the poster
19-Apr-01, 08:53 PM (PDT)
25. "RE: Good points and one other thought..."
amen!!!


Pokekingmon
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Niqui (24 posts) Click to EMail Niqui Click to send private message to Niqui Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
20-Apr-01, 00:19 AM (PDT)
26. "SW pics posted by RB members"
I don't believe their should be any censorship! These pics were very enlightening and definitely made me thankful that I am not in that type of desperate situation...

What really bothers me about the pics I see posted from that side of the hobby is the practice of unsafe sex. Biker's pics didn't show his sexual interaction, so those are not the one's I am speaking of. If you go find a link to yomon's girls you will see many pictures, including greek, of him doing his "crack hoes" bare back! This really frightens me! I don't understand why someone would knowingly boink without any barrier to reduce the risks. I know sex feels better without a condom, gents, but is it really worth it?

Niqui

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Biker (500 posts) Click to EMail Biker Click to send private message to Biker Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
20-Apr-01, 04:48 AM (PDT)
27. "It's time to respond."
OK I have watched this thread and thought a lot about all the comments. Before Redbook automaticly locks this thread for length I would like to respond.

To Nicholl:
Sweetheart, I am behind you on everything you say and would never have any beef with you for posting your honest opinions and concerns. 10 years ago I had no clue about the street scene when I paid my first girl $20 for a blow job. As time went on and I started to learn more about why the girls were out there because of the drug addiction and such I just ignored it , Got my nut off and left town. Only recently , Over the last 2 years have I taken this hobby to another level. If you would have been following my posts regulary over the last year you would have remembered one such ocasion where I meet a girl (Denese) that invited me to her house. Wow I said to myself, this is comfortable. Her and another girl gave me a 4 hour date (Threesome) for almost nothing. I started going over to there house a couple times a week. Each time I would see things like them sticking herion neddles in there arms, Smoking crack and then the next day they were sick and wanting to die. One of my more emotional posts here had me admitting I went home and cried for 1/2 a day over that nasty scene. So what happened? I got over it and went back. I became over the next several months more and more hardened to what I saw and only wanted to pursue this seedy hobby even more. It became a quest of mine to find more and more of the girls and not just get a car date but take them to my house and do overnighters. I have steadly progressed and am continuing to do so. I believe I am addicted every bit as much as the girls and don't have a clue as to where it will end. You see there are not many here as honest as me. But there is no reason to hide the truth. Nichole, I would be very worried about you if you had any other opinion about me or my pictures. To a beautifull college educated perfect figured intelligent women those pictures I posted would have to be a nightmare. And to anyone with a daughter becoming a women should feel the same way.

To the rest of the guys.

I will say this as the honest truth.

1) Yes I would and have posted fully clothed pictures of the girls on the internet without them knowing it. Yes Nichole you are right about your statement in how I gained there trust in getting there picture. There was and is no good way to try to explain about the internet and what redbook is about when there posing fully clothed on the sidewalk in Stockton. If I were the local newspaper and could prove they were prostitue's I could put there pictures in the newspaper. With or without there permission. Nude is different.

2) I will never post Nude photos of any girls without them being fully aware of what I am doing. Flaka and Sophia read every post about them on redbook before I took the first nude picture. They did it volentarly for free in hoping it would bring more johns there to visit them.

3) I have never and will never go near a minor (Under 18) girl with a ten foot pole. or my six)forget that... This is 10 years in jail and the branding as a sexual offender. Not going near that one for nothing.

4) I am drug free and always use protection. I do not believe in covered blow jobs and feel there is almost no risk of HIV from BBBJ but would never have sex or anal without a cover. I do though regulary go down on the girls and love it very much.

5) As you all know I gain nothing from posting pictures of the girls and do it as a service for all that enjoy it. I always stay in the Street section and thought that my posts gave a reality to the street scene. There is no reason in my opinion to have a street walker section here on Redbook if were all going to try and believe that street walkers are normal drug free girls.

6) And finally this whole discussion has nothing to do with freedom of speech and has everything to do with the persons responsible for allowing us all to share here on SFRedbook.com. I have for a long time posted my honest opinions very bluntly always waiting for Redbook to ask me to cool it. They never have but I would respect them for what ever opinions they have about allowable usefull content.

I would also like to thank everyone here in the Conservetory section for being able to have these discussion respectfully without all the flamming. Now Im going back to the Street section where I belong. Bye!!!!

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synesthetic (344 posts) Click to send private message to synesthetic Click to check IP address of the poster
20-Apr-01, 11:22 AM (PDT)
28. "Nice reponse Biker, good discussion..."
I admire your honesty, and I think this has given me a new perspective on the issue.
Just to clarify, I don't advocate censorship, and given what you have written, I think the posts are fine here.
I can empathize with you about the addiction, and I know how strong it can be, and how hard it is to give it up (if you want to). For a long time (over a year), it was my sole purpose in life. Finding the ultimate GFE from the streets.
And I did.
More than once.
And it was awesome!!!
So I don't condemn you, nor advocate you quitting.
But for me, my life has got to take a different direction, and it has. The opposite path is self-destruction: Losing my house, self-esteem (which I had lost), and comfortable lifestyle.
I have gotten back my self-esteem (partly due to some of the wonderful women I met), and I am recovering financially.
I don't judge those who partake in the street scene.
In fact, one of my old favorites called me up last week and I saw her for a few hours. She was drug free, and didn't ask or want much money for the time we spent together. It was nice.
Life is getting better.
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Nicole_Farallon (117 posts) Click to send private message to Nicole_Farallon Click to check IP address of the poster
20-Apr-01, 11:39 AM (PDT)
29. "RE: Nice reponse Biker, good discussion..."
I agree, nice response. And thank you for adressing my concerns and opinions in a civilzed manner. I like the Conservatory
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